Thursday August 19, 2010
Youth Concert with a Message
A YOUTH group comprising 15 members from Hillsong Australia held a concert in conjunction with their visit to Ipoh recently.
Comment: This is NOT TRUE. The people who came and were involved in the musical component of the concert do not make up the band Hillsong Australia. The name Hillsong was used by the organiser for maximum marketing exposure. It was the organiser's deliberate act in cashing in on the name, knowing that many people would not check, would not know how to check, will not bother to verify and would be too gullible to not know what was happening. As it turned out, the organiser whose name is in this article from The Star, succeeded in fleecing the crowd of largely Christians who attended in faith.
The concert called ‘United and Conquer’ was part of a leadership seminar organised by Life City Church in Ipoh.
Comment: I understand that this is a VERY NEW CHURCH set up by the person who organised the Hillsong concert of which we now know is a scam because Hillsong did not turn up, Hillsong did not endorse the use of their name and Hillsong opposed this function. It is also understood that Hillsong Australia is monitoring the event from Sydney. It is also reasonable to expect that there will be considerable legal issues arising from this of which a fairly sizeable law suit is probable. The use of a trading name without permission is a serious copyright offence. If the perpetrator cannot produce written consent or proof in black-and-white, this will only be an open-and-shut case in court.
The audience, mainly comprising youths, also joined the group in singing gospel songs during the three-hour concert at a hotel ballroom.
Hillsong Australia is a Sydney-based church organisation.
Earlier that day, Life City Church conducted a leadership seminar for Christian youths at the same venue.
State executive councillor Datuk Dr Mah Hang Soon, who opened the event, said he was impressed with the enthusiastic and energetic youths from the audience, who danced and sang with the group.
He also donated RM10,000 to the organiser.
Comment: It is simply stunning that a government official like the state executive councillor did not do his homework. It would have been so simple and straightforward to weed out where the problems are. If Dr Mah isn't a Christian, he can easily ask around the mainline churches to seek advice. Donating RM10,000 of the taxpayers' money based on something so ill-advised and so poorly researched is astonishing. It is shameful and embarrassing that something like this can even catch a government official unaware.
Organising chairman Pastor Ken Raj said the event was a success despite the short notice given to host the gathering.
Comment: It is questionable that Ken Raj is by any degree of qualification, a pastor. Many of us know his background. We know he is NOT a pastor. It is probably useful to ask many of the major churches in Ipoh if any of them consider him to be a pastor or a minister with pastoral experiences. How a newspaper like The Star can be duped into accepting "facts" when they do not even check and verify. Maybe I should tell The Star that I am the Honourable President of the Malaysian Foundation of Pastors and Ministers or MFPM, knowing that they probably won't even check if such an organisation exists or not.
“There is a need to shake, stir and energise the young people to perform their best in life,” he said.
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| The actual brochure used for last year's FAKE event. |
Friday January 7, 2011
Hillsong to perform in Ipoh
WELL-KNOWN Christian music group, Hillsong, will take centre stage during the Perak state-level Christmas and New Year celebrations at Stadium Indera Mulia in Ipoh.
Comment: The first piece of media lie came in August 2010 (see above article). Five months later, the same organiser obviously didn't take heed of possible legal action. Some of us believe that he thinks he can get away with it. So here he is, stepping into the limelight and what is potentially disastrous here is that he now wants to involve the whole Perak State Government. In this scenario, should Hillsong Australia decide to sue, the mud will be also on the state government's face. This is a SERIOUS ISSUE but it is obvious that the organiser doesn't really care. The only thing he is concerned with is the money he will pocket at the end of the event. There is a lot to cash in on with something this big. He continues to use the name Hillsong, KNOWING that the name has cachet. In youth Christian circles, Hillsong is a very saleable name. And he knows it.
State executive council member Datuk Dr Mah Hang Soon said the popular group from Australia would be performing several songs and dances during the event on Jan 23.
Comment: The same state executive member continues to sink his boot deep into the quagmire. Five months later and it's obvious he doesn't even do his own homework. Many of us are very sure that in that time, he would have heard something about the organiser, something amiss about the lack of endorsement from Hillsong Australia. It is IMPOSSIBLE to believe he didn't hear anything of this sort. On the assumption that he did hear it, why is he going ahead? That must be an interesting question for many of us.
“The group of seven singers will be the highlight of the event,” he told a press conference at the state secretariat building in Ipoh on Tuesday.
Comment: The highlight of the event will not be singers or musicians from the official Hillsong groups. It was a fake last year and it is still a fake event this year again.
He also said that 16 churches in Ipoh would stage a 40-minute combined musical performance.
Comment: Ask the organiser to name which SIXTEEN CHURCHES these are. Would he also like to tell the public which churches have pulled out and why they have pulled out? Would any of you like to ask him why other mainline circuit churches have pulled out and do not want to have anything to do with the organiser? Would he explain why a certain pastor from a very populous church in Ipoh walked out of the meeting? More questions here...
Was the organiser asked at the meeting to produce WRITTEN PROOF that Hillsong Australia has sanctioned and endorsed this coming event? And did he produce this piece of evidence?
Was the organiser asked of the names of the musicians who will be performing for this event allegedly from Hillsong? Did he provide the names? And why not? Was it because the person who asked for the names mentioned that he would crosscheck the names with Hillsong Australia in Sydney?
Dr Mah, who is Perak Non-Islamic Affairs Committee chairman, said he expected a crowd of 4,000 people at the event which is open not only to the Christian community but also to the general public as well.
Comment: The most SERIOUS concern here is that those who knew that last year's event was a scam should let others know as widely as possible. Another concern is not to allow those who don't know to attend this coming event and get duped again. Yet another concern is not to allow the reputation of our church - and the name of Our God - to be smeared by people who seek their own glory, who have a premeditated intention to deceive, who uses God's Name to forward their own personal agenda often at the expense of ordinary Christians including those who seek to embrace Christ for the first time. We cannot allow this to happen anymore.
“There will also be 2,000 door gifts to be given out on a first-come, first-served basis,” he added.
Comment: Please don't let these door gifts be baits to entice you to go. Think of the big picture. Think of God. Think how you can stand up for God. Think how you can do your part to prevent someone from dirtying His Name, from ruining His reputation, from causing others to stumble, from stopping non-believers from knowing and accepting Christ. Imagine what it will be like for all Christians in church when this issue blows up and everyone knows about it. Imagine what you will have to say to defend your faith, to defend your church and to defend Christ to those who will question you about what happened. Imagine the shame that Christ will endure simply because we stood by the wayside and not do our part in helping to protect the Good Name of Our Lord Jesus Christ.
He said the Sultan of Perak, Sultan Azlan Shah, the royal family and Perak Mentri Besar Datuk Seri Dr Zambry Abdul Kadir were expected to attend the event which would start at 7pm and end at 11.30pm.
Comment: This is as disgusting and predictable as they come. Exactly why is the Sultan and the Chief Minister involved? Because by getting them to come, the media event will become headlining news. Because by getting them involved, it's megabucks for the organiser. Put the two together and it's obvious what is on the organiser's agenda... get rich quick, step on all possible Christian values (of which it is questionable if he has any), rip everyone off. It won't surprise some of us that when the law catches up with him, he'll be gone and hidden away somewhere. Some of us know his background. We know what he is up to. We know his modus operandus.
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| A cut out from the Star Newspaper. |
IF YOU ARE A CARING CHRISTIAN, forward this email to your fellow Christian friends, family members, work peers and ANYONE who may be entertaining the possibility of attending this forthcoming event. We cannot attend and we'll tell you why:
1. We should never attend any event or be involved in any activity that deceives, that is an objectionable act of sin
2. Remember by attending, we are merely endorsing the organiser's intentions
3. We must acknowledge - as Paul says in the New Testament - that often, the enemy is not from without but from within the church itself; so forget about whatever externality problems our churches have because right now, the problem is from within our very fold and we have to cleanse
4. No churches should be working with ANYONE who does not come clean
5. No churches should get involved in any activities that are potentially libellous, slanderous and breaching of any laws including those of a copyright nature
Given the serious nature of this whole thing, we're sure you can add more reasons to these five.
Attached are the official letters by Hillsong Music Australia.
Attached are the official letters by Hillsong Music Australia.
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| The first letter sent by Mr.Tim, manager of Hillsong Music Australia. |
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| The second letter sent by Mr.Tim because the first letter was ignored by the organizer. |
Dear Daniel and Ken,
ReplyDeleteI’d like to take this opportunity after communicating with you both to bring clarification to the situation for January 23.
August 2010 had the principal of our college, Lee Burns, and a Hillsong College team perform in Ipoh and this team was represented in artwork as incorporating members of Hillsong that were not present. This was addressed soon after the event, and to our knowledge has not recurred.
The staronline magazine reference sent to my office was obviously incorrect for the January event in asserting that Hillsong was coming to Ipoh. This should be rectified however is practiacably possible.
We have agreed that it is not an infringement of intellectual property for the group “This Sanctuary” to be described as attendees of Hillsong Church on the flyer. Although I don’t believe this wording will create any misrepresentations, it is important for all to understand that this should not be construed as being a tour of a Hillsong team in any way.
We can confirm that Ken contacted Luke Webb and was in discussions asking if a Hillsong team would come to Ipoh, however, Luke responded that we were unable in January due to the holiday period.
We can confirm that it is likely we will organise an official Hillsong United tour to Asia and potentially go to Malaysia later this year (around June), however, we are still yet to confirm which countries we will visit.
Our heart here is to see the Christian church in Malaysia advanced, and do not wish to cause any type of division, but as previously discussed with both of you, it means that we just need consistent clarification for what is and what is not regarded as Hillsong. This has obviously had issues as demonstrated by the article in staronline, however, we appreciate the efforts of clarifying this as a matter of priority.
I would like to take the opportunity to thank you both for your continued care and support for Hillsong as a ministry. We are passionate about resourcing the wider body of Christ and are looking forward to the time where an official tour will be able to go to Malaysia.
We wish God’s best and unifying spirit for the church in this event, and that many would be saved.
God Bless
Timothy Whincop
Manager - Hillsong Music
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
' :+61(2) 8853 5300 direct:+61 (2) 8853 5374 mobile: +61(0) 420 300 560
* :tim.whincop@hillsong.com
ý :www.hillsongmusic.com
/ PO Box 1195, CASTLE HILLS NSW 1765, Australia
.1-5 Solent Cct, BAULKHAM HILLS NSW 2153, Australia
__________________________________________________________
WHY DONT YOU BE HONEST AND TELL THEM THE TRUTH AS IT IS!
The concert called ‘United and Conquer’ was part of a leadership seminar organised by Life City Church in Ipoh.
ReplyDelete- why do you contradict yourself?
THE CONFERENCE WAS CALLED 'UNITE+CONQUER'
look at the picture you posted yourself? How credible are you with your own words? HMMM.... I wonder!!!
Hello, JOHN DOE! Why the pseudonym? With such BOLD statements and 'eye opening' inside scoop, I'd expect you to use your REAL NAME. Why hide behind a pseudonym, eh? You're the hero who saved the people of Ipoh from their disillusionment!
ReplyDeleteYou were saying about the organizers. Its the Perak Govt. who's organizing it along side Ipoh Pastoral Fellowship, CCM, and other churches in Perak.
ReplyDeleteAre you saying that all this people and organizations who are the organizers are swindling money?! WOW thats a strong word!
You need to check your sources! You contradict most of your own words!
And the populous pastor you were talking about, walked away because he wasn't given a post! After given a post he came back!
Wow! What a servant of God who goes after titles to accomplish things! No wonder he's populous! Don't you think so?
John Doe & cacing, I could sit here and type a rebuttal for every single accusation and assumption made, but I'n mot going to.Don't wanna waste my time! I'm just going with with this : Acts 5:34-42
ReplyDeleteBut one in the council rising up, a Pharisee, by name Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, respected by all the people, commanded the men to be put forth a little while. And he said to them;
Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves, what you are about to do with these men. For before these days rose up Theodas, affirming himself to be some body, whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined; who was slain: and all who believed him, were dispersed, and brought to nothing. After this man rose up Judas, of Galilee, in the days of the enrolling, and drew away the people after him: he also perished: and all who adhered to him, were dispersed.
And now, therefore, I say to you, refrain from these men, and let them alone: for is this counsel, or work be of men, it will come to nothing: But if it be of God, you cannot overthrow it: lest perhaps you be found even to fight against God. And they agreed with him.
I love the last part of the verse: for is this counsel, or work be of men, it will come to nothing: But if it be of God, you cannot overthrow it: lest perhaps you be found even to fight against God.
Have a GREAT day cacing & John Doe! :)
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteDear Cacing, please look at the brochure. Isn't that Darlene & Joel Houston?? Do you mean they came last August? Or did any of the actual team come? And did Hillsongs Tour group came? Were tickets sold by Salvation Bookstore (the official distributor)? In the first impression, doesn't the brochure looks like an Hillsong official brochure?
ReplyDeleteVanes, its simple. Do you call cheating,deceiving & unlawful behavior of any sort a part of the Kingdom of God?? And if it was true that this group has nothing to do with Hillsong(you can visit their myspace acc & there's nothing written about Hillsong Music), why in the first place must Hillsong be dragged into this? Don't they have THEIR OWN CREDIBILITY TO STAND ON THEIR OWN BRANDING OR NAME?? Why must they use the name Hillsong? Is it just so that they will get tickets sold for their concerts??
ReplyDeleteVanes, quoting scriptures alone doesn't justify things of this sort. You need solid black & white prove,written prove,recorded prove to handle this issues. In the first place, you can log on to Youtube, type Hillsong Ipoh on the search box & watch the guys who performed last year singing songs from Hillsong.Do you call this lawful? Infringing on someone else's copyright? Why couldn't they just come clean much earlier. Its not that we don't want Hillsong or even This Sanctuary to perform here, its just that it must be done in a Correct & Lawful way, with proper consent. Don't get angry fast or impatient, look at the evidences, it speaks for itself.
ReplyDeleteAnd Cacing, Unite & Conquer on the brochure looks like the Album from Hillsong Music Australia. Its clearly stated on the brochure HILLSONG AUSTRALIA.....care to clarify this??
ReplyDeleteWhere did you get the letter? credible source? how come you got the letter? just wanna make sure how true your claim is.
ReplyDeleteWe wrote to Hillsong directly & got a reply almost immediately. You can click on the letter & view it for yourself. If it is not true, why must the band change its name at the very last minute?? Credible enough...?
ReplyDelete"unite & conquer" if you look at it in a glimps, it will look like "united". anyway thats the catch right? worst when you attach joel houston and darlene's face to it and you put the trademark "hillsong", you're psychologically misleading people. i didnt expect to pay rm50 to see a bunch of guys jumping around on stage. i expected to darlene and the whole hillsong team. unfortunately i was disappointed to see people whom i don't even know to be there. yes the music and the message was good. but i was not there for the hype. i was there to see the hillsong team. what can i say? i got cheated. i got ripped off by a bunch of christians. and now "this sanctuary"? attendees of hillsong? it's little silly to ride on "hillsong" AGAIN!. is it because hillsong is a crowd puller? it's very obvious that this is a marketing gimic.
ReplyDeletejohn doe: i don't know if you are just a critic or a victim but God bless you for bringing this up. Is timothy whincop really the manager of hillsong music? how can i get in touch with him?
vanes: pls don't use the word of God to hit on another person. it speaks alot about your spiritual maturity. i just hope the organizer will come clean. as long as its done with integrity there won't be any problem.
cacing: it's not the organizer that to be blamed. not the pastors fellowship. its Mah himself who has been so ignorant when doing his job. is it too dificult to find out more about hillsong??? for crying out loud its the internet era my friend!! he did not check anything and allowed his act of ignorance to bring such dispute among christians. but he is not a christian, who should have more intergrity? "unite and conquer" is similar to "adibas". they are both imitations of brands. i guess we are too caught up buying pirated cd's now we want to piratize christianity?
a state event. why need a bunch of australians to perform? cant we (all the churches of perak) perform together? in the main event. why need a guess band "from australia". we could call any local gospel artist or any asians to perform. again calling an australian band to perform for a state event doesn't make sense.
Hi Naren. Its so nice to know that AT LAST some ppl get it. We are not trying to smear peoples image here but we want this kindda false,deceiving spirit outta here. If we don't stand up now, things will get worst in the future. Stand up for truth, stand up for justice.
ReplyDeleteNaren, You can contact Timothy by sending him an email at tim.whincop@hillsong.com.
ReplyDeletejohn Doe: who is the "we" that wrote the letter to hillsong? Ipoh Pastors?
ReplyDeleteIf you read the blog which is stated on the brochure for Unite + Conquer, for more details pls call the number stated and the email or even their blog. Have you done it john doe?
ReplyDeleteHave you spoken to the respective people who organised it? Bible says if you have an issue with another person, go and speak to them directly.
But I dont see it happening here.
Have you seen the Australian papers or the media worldwide what they speak of Hillsong and Ps. Brian? 99% are negative but why dont you question all that? I think you really need to repent before God, only God is given the power to judge a person whether they are right or wrong.
You really need to spend time with God and ask whether what you are doing is right or wrong! Reading the last letter from Tim Whincop, he explained well on what's really happening.
Just ask yourself this, 'Are you creating division or unity in this matter? ' Blessed are the peace makers for they are the sons of God. I believe thats what the scripture says.
God bless you!
ok i will write to tim whincop directly to find out whats really going on.
ReplyDeletewinson: maybe you can to the same.
john doe: some these ppl are probably a part of the organizersthat is why they are so defensive. they are not the victims and thus they are the ones who are finding pleasure with such kind of act. act of manipulation and deception. and after that they use scriptures to defend their wrong doings. they dont understand they they must honour God in everything they do. im not perfect. even satan quoted scriptures, are we going to say he is good??? or even justify by the amount of scriptures he uses??? no he is still a satan! splits often happen in churches but are we going to blame the church? pastor? r we going to say the pastor is condoning those divisions?? no! its the action and choice of the people the end up in the split. but why split happens? because some people practise integrity and some don't. here if the organizer had any integrity such bad experiences would not have happened.
People getting saved -A bad experience?
ReplyDeleteHundreds of re-dedications (on both event nights)- A bad experience?
People who do not know Jesus getting a taste of Him- A bad experience?
People (believers & unbelievers) lifting up His name through the songs - A bad experience?
Youths (from all religions) learning leadership principles that God laid in the Word- A bad experience?
Above all, there was a testimony about a girl that wanted to commit suicide that same week, but God ministered to her and mended her heart during one of the concert nights- A bad experience?
How is that the the good work that God did through that event has gone unnoticed?
Did you guys attend the event? If you did, you would have seen the move of God. You would have tasted the goodness of God. Anyone who felt the presence of God in that place would get defensive over this matter! :)
Anyway, since John Doe & Naren seems to harp on legalistic issues, I think the email from the Hillsong music Manager is quite clear-cut! Yeah, even if you wrote a hundred times to him, he'd probably reply the same thing! Haha..I sure hope they don't think the people of Ipoh are some small-minded lot with a lot of drama!
On a whole different point of view, let's just say this WHOLE THING was a scam with some major copyright infringement done by the 'unauthorized' band that came last year, don't you thing Hillsong will be hot on the organizers' tail for some legal action????
I just hope that this 'drama' did not stem out of personal vendettas and it really did come out of a good conscience! John doe, with such personal attacks made, i find it hard to digest that it came from a good conscience!(And i certainly hope you are not a man of God that plays a BIG role in His church!) No wonder you come with a pseudonym! There's just a WHOLE lot of defamation going on there, sir!
At the end of the day, if it's not the work of God, it will come to nothing! Mass emails have been sent to the public, Hillsong has been notified, the government and politicians are dragged into this, this blog is posted,and people have been talking! So many things are being done to 'expose' the 'scam'. So, John Doe and team, sit back and enjoy watching what and how God's gonna move through this! :) GOD IS IN CONTROL.
Just praying that none of us will be found fighting against God and the plans He has for this city!
Have a good, good day people! :)
Dude grow up please. Like a kid. If ure a real man/ WOMAN. Go talk to Pastor Ken. HAHA! At the end of the day, all glory goes back to GOD! It looks like you are worried no one will go to your church or you wont be famous anymore (if ur) Best solution for u, just listen to God and start rising up for the call of what God has called you to do in this world . :)
ReplyDeleteAfter reading all that..I think John doe should go out to sort things out with cacing..bcoz what you are blogging about are contradicting.. Which leads to nothing but a lie..and please if you are not happy with anyone don't start backstabbing it's a sin and it's kinda stupid..Plus I went to both of the event and both were EXTREMELY AWESOME!!!! And I believe 90%of the people feels the same..bcoz people really got save bcoz of that night..i did!!!!
ReplyDeleteJohn doe please don't discourage the people from Australia.. They come to Ipoh to bring the gospel..which is gonna change this city bit by bit.. I believe this blog is made out of jealousy..so I hope you can stop doing this kind of things..if you don't respect the organizers at least look at the numbers of people getting saved...If I didnt attend the event I wouldn't be save at all.. Cacing and John doe I hope both of you can solve this issue soon without any collateral damage which cost the salvation of this city...this comment is written with a good heart.. I hope you will accept it...and Btw no tickets or payment was needed..for both concerts
Well said.
ReplyDeletejasen said...
ReplyDeleteDude grow up please. Like a kid
Interesting quote. Asking John Doe to GROW UP LIKE A KID? What do you mean? Degenerate? Amusing.
Well. Lets just say. Hillsong didn't come to ipoh. Lets just say a band, a LOCAL CHRISTIAN band were to perform. Would the number of people getting saved will be the same? Would people even had come to an event like that? Or is it just because HILLSONG has more anointing than our local Christian church? Is it because they speak and sing with more POWER and they have more of God's favour?
My main question to the organizers are,
What are they trying to prove?
Are they trying to say that God can only move in Ipoh through HILLSONG coming here? And the fact is, they were just a college band from there. and half the band weren't even aussies. We have plenty of local college bands who sing and praise God as well, why didn't you invite them?
My comments after going to both nights last year, and even this year's Christmas state event:
I see youths. Young people. A generation. Suddenly came alive and all of a sudden want to jump around and worship God and lift their hands. And that only HAPPENS AT A CONCERT. Or
"HILLSONG" coming to Ipoh for a matter of fact. Do you realise that this event(s), hasn't brought much change to IPOH in the long term. Yes it cause stirring, disillusioned and confusing. Is this the fruits that the event? Has it really brought change to the lives of this generation. Many of them, even volunteers go back to their normal 'way of life'(i shall not elaborate), which is pretty sad to look at. Looking at them at church or even the youth groups are a complete dissapointment. So is this entire new generation just awesomely EVENT orientated and not led by the Holy Spirit? I don't have to say much but when you say God is moving, and we're fighting against God, I think its pretty hard to spot. Maybe in that lil small church that suddenly appeared out of nowhere is 'THE MOVE OF GOD'? Maybe i should wait awhile more?
Ipoh POWER!!!
ReplyDeleteConfused.:let's just say that people from australia came to do what we were trying and couldn't do. Plus I believe if it is done by a local band the numbers would lesser than you think. Why don't you start doing things rather than telling people what they should do??? Invite some college band and go start a concert and look at the crowd..And wait you said you want long term changes.. Can you do it??? If you can't then stop giving negative comments because I believe you can't do any better than what ps.Ken did..
ReplyDeleteAbout the volunteers is it their choice to go back to their own ways??? Can they be force to follow the real way of life?? The answer is obvious.
About the little small church..ofcoz it's the move of God, there won't be even a church in Ipoh if there is no movement of God in this city..maybe you should star t looking at yourself is speaking into the negative a move of god??
God bless
ipoh now famous la.
ReplyDeletecan start TVB office di.
Yeah Eva those people are making Ipoh famous because it contains small minded people.. What a shame..
ReplyDeletePart 1
ReplyDeleteHi confused, I like you. :) You put brilliant stuff on the table! Hillsong or NOT, when a platform is created for God to move, He will, CERTAINLY, DEFINITELY move!! God is NOT concerned who the organizers chose to invite, so why should any of us be?? Any organizer can invite ANY group to come and grace any EVENT! It's entirely up to them! :)
It will be SO TOTALLY AWESOME if people could organize events with BIG names like Bro. Paul Dhinakaran or Pastor Joseph Prince or Pastor Brian Houston or the Passion Band or even Hillsong United!! Not that they have more anointing, but they have proven track records of the impact they bring to peoples'lives!Plus,if it's God's delight to use these people to bring the message of hope & love to the world, why should we think twice to invite them?? People all over the world are organizing events with these BIG names. Why can't the people of Ipoh do the same?
So based on your(including John Doe's & Naren's) assumptions,ANYONE who organizes an event with a big name has ulterior motives????? Confused, now that's CONFUSING me!! Is this a backlash against BIG names or a backlash against the organizers?
Here's what you said that i absolutely love!
'So is this entire new generation just awesomely EVENT orientated and not led by the Holy Spirit?'
Darling sister (somehow, i think you are a woman,so pardon me if I'm wrong ya!haha :)) That's just spot on!! This generation IS event orientated coz in case you haven't been keeping abreast with social developments,it's called the MTV-generation! Events(concerts) are tools to evangelize in an appealing manner to young people! So if we can make an impact through events, why not, eh??
This kinda reminds me of the way Jesus ministered to the woman at the well.She was there to draw water, and Jesus used 'water' to relate to her and then drew her into deep spiritual truths. He used something that was relevant to her!
Today, if we can use events as a starting point to introduce Jesus,again, WHY NOT?
Lemme tell you MY story. 10 years ago, there was an EVENT called "YOUTH ALIVE IPOH" It was a concert with BIG names on board. A Christian friend popped the invitation saying,'Hey there's a cool band in town. A concert. You wanna come?'. Being a typical teen,'concert' sounded sooo coool, what more in IPOH!!!! I went, I knew NUTS about Jesus, I was clueless when they sang all the songs (but I sang, anyway!haha), felt awkward during the message and topping all that, I responded to the altar call, not knowing what on earth was going on or why I did it!!! Concert oriented: Yes, I was.TOTALLY!
Holy Spirit led: I never knew about the Holy Spirit then, but it was definitely that 'something' in my heart that caused me to respond to the salvation call. Was that the work of the spirit? Definitely was!
Part 2
ReplyDeleteHere comes the interesting part. After the event,I lapsed back into my old lifestyle! Attended church just for fun, got involved with all the activities, with no real relationship with Jesus. It was only A YEAR after that, that I truly, truly, truly found & fell in love with Jesus and the Word.
10 years later, I am convinced and convicted beyond shadow of doubt,that there is no other God, no greater love than the love of Christ and THAT night at the concert, BEGAN this life-altering, amazing journey of discovering my Saviour! :)I still thank God for the people who organized that event till today!
Now, you tell me, how sure are you that at the events that just came to pass, things like this did not happen?? Even if there was ONLY one life that was changed forever, I would thank God for it! Won't you? :)
THAT'S THE MOVE OF GOD. Unnoticed yet potent. Silent yet powerful.Gentle yet strong! CHANGING LIVES FOREVER. Dare you deny that?
No one will be able to SEE the WORK or the MOVE of God when our eyes are on the wrong places. What are YOU looking at?
The so-called unscrupulous organizers?
or
The hands of HUNDREDS of people responding to the altar call both the nights?
An alleged scam?
or
A platform for God to move?
The MANY people going back to their old pattern of lifestyle(temporary passion)?
or
The one/two/three (or more)who's lives are changed forever resulting in a life-long passion?
The Pharisee's did EXACTLY that. They failed to see the amazing work of God (I don't have to quote examples, you know the stories!) right before their eyes!
WHY?
They were too preoccupied with the little things! Ideas,thoughts,assumptions and false accusations they conjured up in their own silly little minds! :)
Please bear in mind that when we talk about any church, we are talking about the BRIDE OF CHRIST. How we address any church is VERY important. HE owns the church. Whether it dropped out of the sky or surfaced from the deep, it belongs to Him. Big or small, it belongs to Him. Old or new,it is His. :)
I just hope that we can all keep our eyes on Jesus, discern His heart for this city and do the things that matter : THE SON OF MAN CAME TO SEEK AND SAVE THAT WHICH IS LOST.
I was once LOST, but now I am FOUND.
Don't you want every soul to proclaim this beautiful truth?
If you'd FIX your eyes on the King, perhaps, from 'confused' you'd morph into 'clarity'.
Cheers & God bless!
Who says we are only TRYING TO DO and COULDN'T DO? We have plenty of talent. We don't need to model after someone else(OR THE MEGA CHURCH BAND HILLSONG) but seek God for the genuine inspiration! Or just get everyone to do the SMALL THINGS that could go miles. LOVE OTHERS. We're MALAYSIANS. IPOH MALIS. Not white dudes and dudetts from the Down Under(No offence to them, i love australians). We need God, not them. And who says an entire city will be changed by A CONCERT? You know what non-christian that i know come and ask me? (EVEN MALAYS)
ReplyDelete"Eh kamu semua Christian tahu main concert saja ah? Tak bertaubat? Kenapa orang you masih macam dulu. Ada perubahan ke?"
How do you expect anyone to genuinely come to know the Lord when no one sows the seeds of the gospel in their heart?
Why do you think the numbers will be less? Because Hillsong is a BRAND NAME. Even if its not used to sell, it can be used to attract. You pull the crowd in, and majority of it Christians because we all sing their songs in church almost every single week eh. And non-christians go for the hype of everything. Change? Yes? No? I'm just asking for results. And if you realise on facebook after the event people were saying that HILLSONG was awesome instead of GIVING THE GLORY BACK TO GOD! HAH! Interesting right? So thats what sparked my questions. I went for the night, i worshiped. But for me, it was just any other worship session. Each session has a different encounter yes, but it should be the same passion everytime you come before God. And worship isn't just that 3 hour sing-a-long session but your entire life. I didn't see that in the attendees of the night so basically I'm not really being negative. I just have alot of unanswered questions. :)
Oh and about the volunteers thing eh, IF God really was SO AWESOME that night, and alot of people REDEDICATED their lives eh, How come so many of them go back to their 'NORMAL LIVES'? Don't you think if they were part of the event and they were 'touched by God', wouldn't God CHANGE THEIR HEARTS AND THEY WOULD START LIVING WITH PURPOSE AND WITH GOD SHONE OUT IN EVERYTHING THAT THEY DO? So I thought you said it was AWESOME and GOD MOVED?
Thanks for the post Vanes! I had an original reply, i'll just post it anyway:) And I like you too!:)
ReplyDeleteMy reply to Oolala? HAHA:
Why would we have to DO WHAT PEOPLE FROM AUSTRALIA DO? You didn't even answer my question. Haha.
Sorry i'm very new to blogger so i type slow and don't know how to post comments.
ReplyDeletePart 2/3 of the comments.
Haha.
No point arguing because all i'm trying to say is, is God really just limited to move AT BIG SCALE EVENTS? You have to realize when you make a comment about ipoh having SMALL MINDED PEOPLE, each and every one of us are a part of that category, one way or another. And i have heard that line from YOUR PEOPLE almost a million times! So its getting a lil overused ;P
HAHA
Why would i want to be Mr Ken Raj? HAHA. Most Funny statement of the year. Why would i do everything and anything to attain a sole ambition of "CHANGING IPOH CITY(but doing it MY WAY without accountability)"? WHAT DID MR KEN RAJ DO? Do you consider his methods ethical and morally right? Why does all his methods all seem so gray? Why can't he be clear cut and transparent?:)Its funny you say that because, i don't know him and he doesn't know me and You don't know me. Haha. But thats cool:)
I'm sorry. Maybe you guys are right, maybe I just speak and don't do. I'm working on it, still praying and asking;) For now, I'll just focus on the small things and the everyday life that God has called me to do and LOVE. And let Him lead.
I'm really sorry if my views offend anyone of any sort. And No i don't a agree with John Doe in making a public blog and posting it for the world to see. It wasn't worth it. As Miss Vanes said, God is in control and He does as he pleases. He can use anyone He pleases. Forgive me for judging the people that went, but thats just an observation. I'm not perfect myself. I just have alot of questions.
With all that said, I say Let GOD judge. And let God move his people. And we will see the fruits of the spirit speak for itselves. Good or bad i do not know. But the way i see it, its not looking to good right? Haha. If it is really God, Then He will make Himself known. And Justice and Righteousness will prevail. Because HE IS GOD.
The Lord be with You and Let His Light Shine upon you wherever you go.
Peace Be With You all :)
Let's have a public debate!! lol!!!
ReplyDeleteVAnes: i think you know who I am...Great job in saving people as we Christians are all called to do that and you guys have done it! i believe that God would even use a concert just to save one person for every person is precious to Him.
As i read the comments..I think the key issue the others have with the events are the fact that Hillsong's name is being used. But I think this blogger has crossed the line when he started accusing Ken of using these events to earn money. This is something that we should not judge because only God can judge the motives of our hearts.
But I think I know why there is such suspicion. i think basically is that people attend the concert with the expectation that the main team would come but ended up disappointed with it. Actually I myself also have a few questions to ask you, if you don't mind. I ask because I don't want to misunderstand and only want to know the truth. My questions are
1. Why did Ken allow the flyers to be printed with faces of the main team and the description "Hillsong Australia" and to be distributed, knowing well that the team is gonna be the Hillsong College team?
2. Why did the sponsorship request (your brother sent one to me) did not specify that the team that was coming is the Hillsong College Team? In fact, the message asked me to check it out in hillsong.com and I don't see the Hillsong College team there.
If the same sponsorship message is sent to others, there might be a problem. Because I myself misunderstood when I read it. It's worse if the generous person were to donate ten of thousands of ringgit just to found out that the details were not in line with his thoughts!
Ken has impacted me significantly as a leader and I do not want people to misunderstand. We all made our mistakes. Perhaps he has made a mistake that cause others to view him badly? I think it is no harm for him to answer some of the questions people have regarding this issue. Since God called us to "Unite & Conquer" this misunderstanding is definitely not helping us achieve this goal and I'm sure there is an explanation on all this.
please don't judge peoples motives. We don't really know for sure unless we've seen it with our own eyes somehow. If anyone did see it with their own eyes then prove it to us. And if you keep your identity closed, it also tells your level of integrity, how can one trust you?
Winson
Confused. answering you rite now ey...my oppinion in why we should follow them..is because they have success stories.Yes we people have talents.. but if we don't use it what is the point of having them..I belive Hillsong came to kick-start what we have in us...so we can start the ministry here in unity..
ReplyDeleteAbout the volunteers... God gave us the Power of Choice... thats why it results to what youve said..go back to their 'NORMAL LIVES'?... but ther are peopl who gone back but there are also people who stayed and embrace the love of god..
Confused..I believe you have an trust issue with
God..because you question whether he move or not..and the awesomness of HIM
Wow! I am APPALLED with this statement:
ReplyDelete'Oh and about the volunteers thing eh, IF God really was SO AWESOME that night, and alot of people REDEDICATED their lives eh, How come so many of them go back to their 'NORMAL LIVES'?'
So is it God's FAULT that people DON'T SHINE right after that event?!! Are you calling Jesus's transforming power into question? You sound like your almost mocking God and what He can do! Geez!
Why the cynicism? It took me ONE WHOLE YEAR to actually really know Jesus after the YA concert. The concert night was a BEAUTIFUL START! A seed sown.
Can you at least believe that in time, ALL those who rededicated their lives will somehow, at some point of their lives, latch themselves unto Jesus, and REALLY start walking and living that Christ-centered lives?! Can you bring yourself to see that it was a START to so many new things in so many people's lives????
In case you don't know,change takes time. It's a slow process. So let's allow them that! I know God would! :)
You are right to say 'Forgive me for judging the people that went, but thats just an observation.'
You have absolutely no whatsoever right to judge any person, be it those who attended the event or those who organized it. No matter how rotten & corrupt a person maybe(or so we think),we should NEVER EVER make crude remarks about them. NEVER EVER! Who are we to discuss about another a brother/sister in Christ? It's just a low-blow if you ask me!
About your 'observations', I'd suggest it will be good to start viewing things through God's eyes. :)
We see teenagers' hype at the concert. He sees opportunities to display His love in young hearts!
We see massive crowds at an event. He sees endless amount of people to minister to!
We see a crooks doing things for their own glory. He sees individuals that can be used as powerful vessels in His hands!
We see BIG names being used as crowd-pullers. He sees it an amazing way to send forth His message of love & hope to masses of people! (This is the last days,anyway!)
We see bad. He sees room for goodness.
We see white dudes and dudettes. He sees men and women who want to impact others through their music and songs!
We see the 'why is that not right'. He sees the 'what's right'!
We see no changes after the event. He sees the seeds that's already been sown, waiting to be cultivated!
We see hopelessness. He sees life and hope!
That is why HE IS GOD.
and that is why, we all need to learn how to view the world through His eyes.:) I am blown-away each time I think about this!
Cheers people! :)
No one cares about my comment...
ReplyDelete:(
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteVanes: i did not say that the organizers have hidden motives behind. i just said that they would be more transparent in promoting the event. just like what winson asked. if the brochure gave a proper information people would no be misled and know if it is necessary to go or not. thats my concern. please im not judging anyone. its just my disappointment.
ReplyDeleteyes the concert was indeed nice. no complaints on that matter. it's just that next time if anyone organizes any kind of concerts please put accurate info on the leaflet to avoid misunderstanding. and vanes: when i meant bad experience i meant this kind of misleading. God will surely move at any point, place and time. and yes ppl get saved and all those signs and wonders happens when God moves. But we are not to practise again and again on this kind of misleading. you can bring big names and big people and praise God for them for they are making a big change in the world. vanes i know we cannot please everybody infact we will never be able to please anyone. so when we do something just learn to please God in what we do. if there wqere certain steps taken which was not right try to improve it the next time. no point arguing about the same matter. we are only bringing glory to satan when we argue. Let glorify God.
everyone: we might have different opinions and thoughts. lets stay united even if we have different opinion.
question. after reading all the comments above, one thing that is still not clear is, the way the organisers(christians) actually organizing the event previously and last year.
ReplyDeletefor example, why is there misconceptions such as promoting 'HILLSONGS' on the papers and by the word of mouth people are saying that too? dont you organizers have any integrity in clarifying such a matter? and worst of all, around one week before the real event, only emails were going out from the organizers clarifying the matter. cheating people isnt the only main picture now. the fact is either you(organizers) are covering up something or if not the only logical reason is, you(organisers) are plain lazy. like clarifying matters that late, volunteers briefing was told a few days before the briefing, and practically doing everything last minute! even last year's unite and conquer, the flyer for example, why the misconception? dont you people have ample time to plan these things? dont you check? you people(organisers) say you wanna cause/start a movement and this is certainly not an example of the qualities you should have in your heart. even the smallest matter is something significant in the process of doing something great. and please, i reckon you are going to answer by blaming others such as problems with the 3rd party involved, but then again, if all was planned earlier, none of this would had happen, including this blog. vanes, mind explaining? and since this blog is out spreading on facebook and emails, why is ken absent in our midst? is he afraid to comment or is he like what i have mentioned above, plain laziness? does he even have integrity to clarify? is he asking people like vanes to do his work here and not himself? since he's the one that coordinated these events, he should give us real logical answers, not like what Ool@l@l33 and vanes is saying, which are diverting, and not facts. dont you people reading notice?
to jasen, do you actually process the words through your brain before you type them out? the matter isnt about what christians should do but instead is about matters regarding 'hillsongs' and the organisers. no wonder you comments were removed. cause they were irrelevant. the one who should grow up is you.
HAHA! Dude u feel too much. Actually i removed it myself. Why did i say that? Coz whoever the person that created this blog is acting like a kid. Kids only write stuff when they are (emo-ing, sad etc...)iM JUST A SIMPLE DIRECT GUY! Why don't tat person just just confront Pastor Ken ??? And why are you feeling so much? Are you one of the them? The best thing is, why not you guys buy ticket to aussie and bring Ps ken ,go to hillsongs and say whatever u wanna say.
ReplyDeleteThat will be awesome.
Aftermath: are you one of the organizers??? Why do you speak as if you know how much time was given to them to plan and do the work?? Please do not judge if you don't really know the situation. Please don't just shoot people without knowing the exact info. Volunteers briefing which one briefing are you referring to??? The recent one or august last year?? If you need answers you can talk to Ken personally(preferable face to face) bcoz I think clarifying things here would be a waste of time and efforts, just being effecient not lazy. Haha.. Hope to see your question answered mate!!!
ReplyDeleteConfused: I think you get me wrong.. I didn't ask you to be like Ps.Ken Raj,I ask you try not judge people because you don't know him and probably you can't do things better than him.
Sorry lots of typo!!! Using iPod.. Sorry
ReplyDeleteEh..I feel left out eh... someone please respond to my comment...
ReplyDeleteVanes: HELP ME PLEASE!
Funny that this conversation just shows that people, (Vanes and Oohl@l@ and Jasen) are trying to defend something/someone that really is not dependable by diverting the attention from the main issue. Ohwell. I have nothing else to say. This shall be the last and final comment of mine:)
ReplyDeletep.s. :
I hope you do EVER get your answer Winson! Best of luck:)
*defendable
ReplyDeletewow jasen, the part '..Actually i removed it(comments) myself..' explains your immaturity as to actually post the comments then actually only thinking about it later and removed it. matters like not thinking through things and doing it causes problems, such as misconceptions in the flyers and only clarifying about them after. thank you jasen, your mistakes have just confirm my point :)
ReplyDeletedear Ool@l@l33, im referring about the previous event that happened, the volunteers actually received note that the briefing was INFORMED THE DAY BEFORE THE BRIEFING. come on, have a little integrity. this sort of matters are what i am highlighting. an event this big requires proper planning and ample time beforehand to pull it off. and people actually volunteered weeks before it, and you only told them THE DAY BEFORE THE BRIEFING? worst part is what did the volunteers actually did on that day? most of them absolutely did nothing isnt it? dont you think they feel cheated? can you actually explain instead of diverting?
agreeing with Confused where he said 'Funny that this conversation just shows that people, (Vanes and Oohl@l@ and Jasen) are trying to defend something/someone that really is not dependable by diverting the attention from the main issue.'
but we cant blame them, most probably they're the organisers/supporters and it is in their nature to defend their church/event.
adding on, people who are reading look at this, Ool@l@l33 said '..bcoz I think clarifying things here would be a waste of time and efforts..'
the only LOGICAL reason is.. HE CANT CLARIFY NOTHING. dont you notice AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN how he DIDNT ANSWER MY QUESTION? and ultimately, DIVERTING it instead. totally awesome bro. keep it up.
im pressing hard on this cause the organisers cant acknowledge their mistakes and rather find a way out(diverting).
at the end of the day, all is good. cause
Romans 8:28 tells us that all things work together for good, for those that love God and are the called according to His purposes.
so organisers please. for the better good or others and YOURSELVES, as followers of God who are called according to His purpose, stop evading and maybe just a 'sorry' will suffice with the genuine truth behind it.
Make happen the church in you before you build others and learn from your mistakes.
Bro read properly.... I gave you a solution..you're just trying to make us look bad.
ReplyDeleteGod Bless.
Don't defend blindly, especially when you can't. Instead of being over-protective over what you think is right, try questioning your very views. The fool is a fool not because he was fooled, but because he doesn't listen.
ReplyDeleteShare opinions, not shoot them. Being overly defensive just shows how much you want to be right regardless whether you're right or wrong, ignoring all possibilities that point to you as incorrect. Thats confidence in ignorance. Provoke thought, not people.
What you say to others, can it be applied to yourself?
When you ask someone to confront the pastor, could you confront the pastor yourself and make him convince you that you're debating for the right cause?
Have you ever thought about it or you just put it aside?
Is it fear that hinders you from doing so. Fear of being shot or fear of being wrong.
Debating is pointless unless one really knows what he/she is debating about.
LOL. Please don't judge people. The reason was i delete is because i typed what i wanted to say. Than i accidentally delete it (leaving it incomplete),I wasn't aware of it! My pc mouse has this prob. Explains alot. Judgemental person. :)
ReplyDeleteSo think before you type it here. Don't judge people la =D Btw i feel like I know you. Why don't you tell me your name? Since you talk alot. :)
Aduh: I did confront him..and I got answered, that's why I'm here telling you all to talk to him..lol.. Make sense??? If you have something not happy dont just sit there go search for answers from the source.. Lol.. I'm not defending him.. I'm just trying to preserve the truth from being disposed..
ReplyDeleteI Hope this perfect solution can be used by every confused or unsatisfied person hhere.. Then only unity can be reformed to save this city
Er....I'll give everyone another chance to respond to the comment i post a few days back...perhaps you all missed out this comment?
ReplyDelete*repost
VAnes: i think you know who I am...Great job in saving people as we Christians are all called to do that and you guys have done it! i believe that God would even use a concert just to save one person for every person is precious to Him.
As i read the comments..I think the key issue the others have with the events are the fact that Hillsong's name is being used. But I think this blogger has crossed the line when he started accusing Ken of using these events to earn money. This is something that we should not judge because only God can judge the motives of our hearts.
But I think I know why there is such suspicion. i think basically is that people attend the concert with the expectation that the main team would come but ended up disappointed with it. Actually I myself also have a few questions to ask you, if you don't mind. I ask because I don't want to misunderstand and only want to know the truth. My questions are
1. Why did Ken allow the flyers to be printed with faces of the main team and the description "Hillsong Australia" and to be distributed, knowing well that the team is gonna be the Hillsong College team?
2. Why did the sponsorship request (your brother sent one to me) did not specify that the team that was coming is the Hillsong College Team? In fact, the message asked me to check it out in hillsong.com and I don't see the Hillsong College team there.
If the same sponsorship message is sent to others, there might be a problem. Because I myself misunderstood when I read it. It's worse if the generous person were to donate ten of thousands of ringgit just to found out that the details were not in line with his thoughts!
Ken has impacted me significantly as a leader and I do not want people to misunderstand. We all made our mistakes. Perhaps he has made a mistake that cause others to view him badly? I think it is no harm for him to answer some of the questions people have regarding this issue. Since God called us to "Unite & Conquer" this misunderstanding is definitely not helping us achieve this goal and I'm sure there is an explanation on all this.
please don't judge peoples motives. We don't really know for sure unless we've seen it with our own eyes somehow. If anyone did see it with their own eyes then prove it to us. And if you keep your identity closed, it also tells your level of integrity, how can one trust you?
Winson
Wow.. Whoever this author is definitely got my attention. Why did u take your time to go through all of this? if u have solid prof can u contact me? I'm very keen in knowing as i too feel the same. But have no proof to many of the things that i had doubts on. If you don't mind sharing,i really want to know.I felt there was a lie too going on with the organizers and such. Please have the time to contact me if you can.
ReplyDeleteJasen, Ool@l@l33 and Vanes, It is interesting to see how you defend someone you seem to think so highly about. Perhaps it is his charisma and personality, how he seem to inspire young people till they do not know how to discern between right and wrong any more. Any wrong doing is explained and justified as being "the move of God" no one can stop. Please be careful. The bible tells us to test the spirit, and also the fruit will tell of what spirit it is. Do not put your trust in man but put your whole trust in God. How great a leader is, they are still human and tend to err. We have our character flaw even your leader. Therefore putting your whole trust in man will lead you to shipwreck your faith, IF YOU ARE NOT CAREFUL.
ReplyDeleteWinson's comment "I think the key issue the others have with the events are the fact that Hillsong's name is being used." is rightly so.
Naren also shared "God will surely move at any point, place and time. and yes ppl get saved and all those signs and wonders happens when God moves. But we are not to practise again and again on this kind of misleading." .... is spot on. So the issue is not about Hillsongs being brought to Ipoh, but about misleading the people about Hilsongs and collecting money for the seminar. There are many discrepancies... believe me I know. AND THIS DOES NOT GLORIFY GOD.
I see the comments and questions posted as checks and balances in the kingdom of God. The organiser need to admit his "mistake" and apologise , cos it is clear cut, don't know why the people defending Him cannot see it. We need to be acccountable to one another and to God, so that this matter will not arise again.
I am sure that if this confession were to take place, God's people would be gracious to restore him again. God detest the proud but gives grace to the humble!!!
SHALOM
Things that is just not right with Life City Church!!
ReplyDelete1. It would be nice if Pastor Ken Raj provides his certificates that will certify him to be a legal pastor? How can he tell someone he is not a pastor and when others found out he change his statement and made sure the truth is covered up?
2. Why does Pastor Ken Raj says and talks large about the Hillsongs Team but the actual Hillsongs did not come to Ipoh and why did he brag of Hillsongs performing for the state event and last minute change of name announcing that the sanctuary is the one performing? This blog seems very true. The actual Hillsongs team did not come right? Why was the advertised details wrongly stated???
http://hillsongipohscam.blogspot.com/2011/01/hillsong-live-ipohscam.
3. Why does he not act like a pastor? Why does he criticize other religions? What if others were to criticize Christianity how would he feel? Does he not think of others? He tries too hard to follow the footsteps of Pastor Colgen but he just can’t. Pastor Colgen would not criticize other religions or ever talk bad like Pastor Ken.
Ken said " i don't give care what the christians are up to now. I only care about the non-christians."
How can he claim to be a pastor but speak such way?? How can he not care about what christians are up to??? It’s good he have intentions to help save non-christians. But the what? When they become christians you’re just not going to bother rite?
4. Pastors just don’t brag about themselves or their achievements and success in life. Everytime in church, he would brag about himself. Dude! We don’t attend church to hear about his success in life or who he meets. We’re there for god’s message and that’s all.
5. Life City Church is not registered right? Well legal talk, all those attending can be caught for attending a wrong teaching and end up in prison for this. It may not be wrong teaching exactly but it can be considered so if a law suit is filed against LCC.
6. How could you use the money for hard work carolling that had good cause for the bills needed to be paid for LCC? It is very sad to hear that the carolling was supposed to help raise funds for the poor family but instead used to pay the bills????? Then what was the point of telling everyone that we are going to have a fund raiser for that family instead end up using all that money for LCC?? We might as well just tell people that we wanna have a fund raiser for LCC as we are short of cash to pay up right??
Hi Ool@l@,
ReplyDeleteI'm glad that you are someone that goes to the source to ask for answers rather than listening to rumours.
Would you mind telling me what answer you got from Ken concerning what I asked? I think that there are enough people who are suspicious and not happy about all this. This blog definitely is not helping the reputation of LCC and I would not like to see good churches disconnected with other churches due to misunderstanding.
Can I suggest that since you know the answer, perhaps you can tell us. If you are afraid that you might misrepresent certain facts, you can ask Ken to check it for you before you post it online..that would be of great help to all of us since many people read this blog (I assume).
Winson
P.S. Anonymous 2: You actually attend LCC? How do you know so much?
Part 1
ReplyDeleteWHOA, two days away from this blog, from the 'HILLSONG SCAM'it has NOW turned into a barrage of criticism against 'KEN RAJ'. WHO ON EARTH ARE WE TO JUDGE??? Goodness!
Winson,
Don't worry, I'm here to answer only YOU actually. Haha..didn't expect to see new critics surface! :)
1.Why did Ken allow the flyers to be printed with faces of the main team and the description "Hillsong Australia" and to be distributed, knowing well that the team is gonna be the Hillsong College team.
We knew there’s a team from HILLSONG CHURCH coming. The confirmation of WHO was coming was only later. Flyers were approved on 12/7/2010. Who’s coming was (the final, definite line-up) was confirmed on 5/8/2010. Thus, the safest to put on the flyer (or so we thought!) would be HILLSONG AUSTRALIA. Note that it WAS NOT :
1- Hillsong Live
2- Hillsong United.
The team WAS from Hillsong’s and Hillsong’s from Australia anyway. About the faces of Darlene and JTH on the flyers, honestly , never thought it could mislead people into believing the MAIN team was going to be here coz if the MAIN TEAM WAS GOING TO BE THERE, THE FLYERS WOULD HAVE STATED:
1- HILLSONG LIVE or
2- HILLSONG UNITED.
Instead on the flyers there was only ‘HILLSONG AUSTRALIA. UNITE + CONQUER. MALAYSIA. LIVE @ IPOH’. Unite + Conquer was a theme. Not a copyrighted one, so anyone can use it !
But anyway, Winson, if Darlene was coming, there would be ‘LIVE WITH DARLENE ZSCHECH’ on the flyers, don’t you think? Or if united was coming, don’t you think you’d see HILLSONG UNITED stated on the flyer? NEITHER WAS ON IT.
We are very sorry that this was deemed 'misleading'.If EVERY person who questioned the ‘misleading’ flyers DID CALL THE NUMBERS GIVEN, don’t you think all your confusion can be clarified? Well, thank God for the MANY good people who DID call and get a clarification DIRECTLY before jumping into conclusions. That’s the right thing to do and I respect that!
As to why the main team's faces were there, is simple. When you think of Hillsong’s songs and music or anything related to it, what/who flashes through your brain? The prominent stuff, right?
Similarly, when you are asked to create a flyer to promote Perak, what comes to mind? The stuff that makes Perak, Perak, right? The prominent stuff..You’d put images of Kelly’s Castle.. You’d put the State Museum in, you’d put all the images of food places in.. Why? They symbolize Perak in one way or another.
That is why their faces are on it. Never to mislead. Never expected it to!
Mislead for what? We’d be fools to want to mislead people into believing the MAIN team's coming, when we DARN well know it is definitely not them, but another team! Don’t you think that would be like digging our own graves? Why would we jeopardize our own image, integrity, and credibility?
Why would we do that? Ever though about that?
It was an innocent mistake. Mistake of not including the ‘Hillsong College Team’ in the flyers in the first place. Who knew people would misinterpret them?! Which is why at some point before the event when we realized that people were not clear, we rectified our mistake by redoing the flyers before publishing it on the national papers and clarified with a lot of people concerning it!
If we wanted to mislead, why would we correct our mistake?
Why would we in the first place admit that it was a mistake?
Why would we redo the flyers?
Because the underlying intention was to BLESS this city and in no way, mislead anyone.
I hope that answers your first question. Personally, I wished you had called us la
Part 2
ReplyDelete2. Why did the sponsorship request (your brother sent one to me) did not specify that the team that was coming is the Hillsong College Team? In fact, the message asked me to check it out in hillsong.com and I don't see the Hillsong College team there.
The letter stated “We are hosting a great, well-known and experienced team from Australia, known as Hillsong”. Did we say Hillsong Live? Nope. Did we say Hillsong United. Nope. So how did you misunderstand, Winson? Yes, you are right, that we should have included Hillsong College Band. Another mistake? Yes. Caused misunderstanding?(err..so far, yours is the first complaint received regarding this matter! Haha..But it’s cool to clarify this!) What did you do with the questions that you had? Post it on a blog five months later??! Haha.. in the letter, it was clearly stated, ‘For any further enquiries, please do not hesitate to contact our co-ordinator…. ‘ Did you call? Yes, you clarified with my bro, but apparently it did not make sense right? So why didn’t you call and ask (maybe even demand)for and explanation? No harm right?
FYI, NO generous donor would want to part with tens of thousands of ringgit, BEFORE verifying EVERY SINGLE DETAIL on the form! They would call the number given and ask questions(many, many questions, surely!) and then decide to donate! I would do that! Wouldn’t you?:)
I hope that clarifies the questions you have. Thank you for being honest and bold enough to reveal your identity. To me, it matters. :)
To the rest of the faceless-critics, I wish you had more guts and integrity to use your real identity. Like I keep saying, when you can be so BOLD & RADICAL with your accusations, theories, assumptions,and criticisms, i wish you could match all that up, by using your real identity. :)
It is your choice as a blogger/blog follower you may say, therefore it is also my choice to not reply any of you. :) Why waste my time explaining things to faceless people?
I would hold you high in esteem if you would call Ken up, and get this clarified (since some of you are losing sleep over this! )once and for all. ANYONE can lash out on a blog.It's waaaaay too easy to use a blog! But NOT EVERYONE CAN CONFRONT THE ISSUE/PERSON HEAD ON.
Take care & God bless! :)
Vanes:
ReplyDeleteWow...it actually took two parts to answer my questions...lol
anyway thanks for clarifying, i did not call personally 5 months ago because i wasn't attending the concert (i was in thailand for a mission trip) and only put the questions at the back of my mind and went on with my own business.
If this time I only called to ask you, then only I would have the answer. But since this blog exists you answered in this blog, then many other people who actually read its comments would be able to see your clarification. That is why I post in this blog. To help you guys and also the rest to see and decide for themselves the truth about the matter.
Anyway my knowledge of whatever happened in the concert, the organizing and stuff are very limited as I was not involved. My questions are only based on what I know and what I see. The rest who are more involved may have other questions other than the two I've posted. Good luck in answering all of them. Hopefully they are not too many if not your phones will habis battery very fast...lol
Winson
Still not admitting anything. Still justifying every action!!!
ReplyDeleteLOL
Hey i think you people should know if you look for mistakes you will find mistakes.Isn't it better that you go out there and actually get people to go church rather then sitting in front of the computer trying to figure things out. Why don't you people take a look into your own life and see if you are perfect.
ReplyDeleteThis blog is becoming more of a personal thing.Why dont you people meet up and talk to the organizers?
And people why don't you look for the good in everything and even this event you are talking about cause all this event is back dated. Start moving forward.